The Standpoint

By

Karan Deep Singh

I. Lesley, my first question to you is that as an activist what is it that you understand by the term ‘queer’?

That’s a very good question! In India, in our languages there have always been certain indigenous words for people who are different, words that people have used for themselves. For instance, ‘samlengik’ in Hindi is a broad term which means homosexuality. But there is another group which call themselves ‘kothis’ and another group, they call themselves ‘panthis’. This is supposed to have a reference to the active and passive part in a relationship like in India we have that monkey on a string thing, so ‘kothi’ is the puppet and ‘panthi’ is like the guy who pulls the string.

There are other terms, like what in India is referred to as ‘hijra’ is called hermaphrodite in the West. And in India, a homosexual woman is called ‘samlengik aurat’ but in the west, they say ‘Lesbian’.

For a long time, regarding the theory of sexuality, the thing that you would hear is LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender). Now the problem here is that we slowly realize that it’s not possible for these four terms, of course you can keep adding the letters of the alphabets but you will never be able to cover the variety of identities and behaviors in terms of alternate sexuality.

See, ‘queer’ as a term has been used internationally as an umbrella term for anybody who has alternate sexuality. ‘Queer’, as in, not ‘Straight’, that is what it means. And it is very effective in India because we have such a variety of sexualities, like in the states of Karnataka and Maharashtra; you have so many unique groups, that you can’t possibly represent them as alphabets. So we say ‘Queer’.

‘Queer’ is a concept, which basically has to do with individual choice, not just in terms of sexuality. It is a broad political concept which recognizes oppression on the basis of sexuality is linked to oppression on the basic of class or gender or caste and so on. So, it is a very broad political identity which more effectively represents the largest group of people. It unites all of us.

II. Do you agree with the term ‘queer’ considering the actual meaning of this word being 'strange' or 'of questionable character'?

Well, it does mean strange and of questionable character. But a lot of movements have reclaimed these words, like for instance; ‘negro’ was always a derogatory term for black people, now they wouldn’t mind using it for themselves with pride.

When you reclaim a term of abuse and you use it for yourself, you empower that word. So that’s why, I have no problem in using the word ‘queer’. And in any case, if you really think about it now, the way that you hear the word ‘queer’ with regard to alternate sexuality, Im sure it has a very positive connotation, rather than the negative. It doesn’t instantly make you think in a negative way.

That’s the power of reclaiming language. So, I have no problem with the term.

III. How did you institutionalize the Delhi Queer Pride Committee?

The Delhi Queer Pride Committee is least institutional. Last year and this year, we have a mailing list within the queer community in Delhi, we simply send out a call saying anybody who is interested in planning Delhi Queer Pride, need not even be ‘queer’, can come to attend the meeting we organise. Whoever lands up for the meeting is the Queer Pride Committee. We’ve had around five to six meetings this time around.

There is no structure like the working committee. Whoever attends the meeting and participates in the discussion is the committee. So it’s quite a wide committee of about 40 people who’ve been coming at different points of time. There are few people who’ve been coming for all the meetings, who sort of hold the thread together and have had the time and dedication. But there is no structure as such.

Whoever sits around the table in the discussion is a part of the consensual decision making. Everybody is there as an individual. It is entirely planned by queer people in Delhi. So, the committee is just a collection of as many individuals turn up for the meeting. But we’re all linked and stay in touch.

There is no NGO representation. It is just comprised of people committed to a cause.

IV. The issue of LGBT rights has always been looked upon by the larger community as some sort of a taboo, from being labeled as a ‘complex’ issue to a ‘controversial’ one. How do you see it and how can we further simplify it?

Very simply we need to understand that everybody is entitled to human rights as enshrined not only in our constitution but the UN Declaration of Rights.

Apart from people who are queer, there are many issues with regard to sexuality that are taboo in our society. But taboos are to be broken!

Taboo means that you create silence around a particular issue. Now, when you create silence around a particular issue, you have a situation where gay people are being forced into arranged marriages against their choice. You have situations where people commit suicide to avoid this. You have situations where people work in environments which are inimical to them.

So, a lot of queer people, especially those who are gender challenged or rather who have a different gender experience have a lot of difficulty finding employment. If you don’t break those taboos and the silence, you are going to continue to deny this section of your society its rights to live full lives. So, it maybe a taboo subject for some people but we are breaking the silence about it.

We will, because we are the affected people and any group in any society whose rights are marginalised, who are denied their rights based on whether they are dalit or whether they are gay is going to break that silence and talk about it. Whether it makes some people uncomfortable or not, how else do you make progress.

On the most simplest level, this is the group of people who have been denied certain rights, the right firstly against criminal prosecution for a choice that they are making within their privacy and as consenting, thinking adults, which really is nobody else’s business, then the right of cohabitation. Because of the silence around it, there’s a question of access to proper right to health. Right to Life, when you’re under threat of your life for being gay is another instance of the queer people being denied their basic rights. There’s a long list, including the right to privacy and freedom of expression. It is long list of rights which are abrogated for queer people.

Ours is a struggle for the realisation of these rights. At the same time, it is a complex issue.

It is also a very complex issue. Within India, it is also a question of how sexuality is viewed, not just for people who are queer but also for straight people, the whole taboo around single people or live-in couples and around single women. We don’t talk about sex in a healthy way in India at all. That’s why we have so many sex scams, so much of unhappiness. We have so many unhappy marriages, where people who are sitting in their unhappy marriages are talking about gay people having sex while they are not having sex at all.

It is very complex and you can simplify. But till you don’t change people’s mindsets, it can’t be solved. You can have anti-discrimination registration, you can have cohabitation and marriage rights for people who are gay, but you’re still going to have problems because people are still going to discriminate on an individual level. If you have anti- discrimination registration, I can imagine a situation where an employer can’t tell you that I’m not hiring you because you’re gay but you still won’t get the job anyway.

V. How has been the impact of the first gay pride parade in Delhi last year?

It was massive because very, very importantly for not really the first time but with a really high impact where you had positive images of this community being flashed all across India.

Look at the newspaper today and you have positive images of a community that is proud and of course struggling for rights, struggling against criminalisation but it is proud and surviving well and declaring that they are proud of themselves.

For the longest time, the larger society’s engagement with this community has been in negative terms, when you read about somebody being forced into marriage or somebody who committed suicide to avoid it, maybe because they were not able to live a lesbian life or maybe gay men being blackmailed and extorted.

Also, there has been a lot of misreporting with regard to malicious reporting about gay men, sex workers and truck drivers being basically the source and spreaders of HIV and other infectious diseases in India. I’m referring to this kind of wrong publicity about the community while nobody actually understands them and as if all gay men do is spread HIV.

So this was for the first time, a very, very positive image. And I know, for that matter, my father who has never been usually supportive felt a certain sense of empowerment by it because it was such a happy event. I remember he sent me a sms later, saying congratulations, it was a good show. And a lot of families suddenly felt that my child is not just living this life of oppression without rights but that the child is living as a part of this vibrant and strong community that’s involved in a fight for its rights in a very positive and a self-confident way. That was the impact of the first pride. Now we’ll see today. We expect it to be much bigger.

VI. Lesley, I am aware of the Stonewall Riots, the incident and how later Pride Parade actually originated but I would request you to enlighten us about the concept of ‘Pride’.

When you tell a group of people that your sexual choices are wrong, your gender choices are wrong, the way you look is wrong, who you have sex with is wrong, that your entire existence is wrong; Pride is about saying we have a right to love whoever we want, we have a right to look however we want, we have a right to make choices for ourselves and our own bodies and we’re proud of our choices. That’s what it is about on a simplest level.

On some level, it is also defiance against the homophobic voices which are still allowed to spread. It is to say that whatever the odds, we are still criminalised in India but we exist and we have survived and we are not going to change the way we are. Instead, we are proud of it.

VII. Were there any organisational hurdles or challenges the team faced while organising the Pride March in Delhi?

In Delhi, organising Pride has been pretty straightforward because I feel Delhi is a city that’s used to marches and protests. So, we had no problem in terms of getting people to do it because there is so much enthusiasm for Pride, there were many people who decided to take up the task with dedication.

There was no problem in getting the police permission and protection. I wouldn’t say there was any major hurdle of any kind.

VIII. Did you receive any kind of support from government authorities?

Well, supporting gay pride, I can’t say. But I was happy to read in the newspaper today, very positive comments from the Home Ministry. Before this, the Home Ministry had been a big challenge for us, in our case.

We have had a lot of poor language on the record from the Home Ministry being used while describing homosexuality as being ‘delinquent’ and saying that to decriminalise homosexuality is to open the floodgates of delinquent behavior.

So, I am happy that the new Home Minister is a much more forward thinking man and is willing to chair a meeting of all the ministries involved. Of course, they haven’t said anything directly. But I hope they do realize that you can’t be a democracy and have Section 377 of the IPC in its present form.

IX. Lesley, I would like to ask you that have there been instances where the straight people, as they are called, really came forward and participated in the Pride?

Yes, we have a lot of people who live heterosexual life, identify as heterosexuals who participated and marched last year and will be marching this year in the Pride who support queer rights. At the end of the day, section 377 not only criminalises gay sex but also criminalises certain aspects of heterosexual sex, like for that matter; even heterosexual couples can’t have oral sex or anal sex even in privacy.

The difference is that heterosexual couples are accorded a degree of privacy and respect that gay couples are not and gay couples are not able to have sex within their home, which is why they are forced out into places where they are more vulnerable to be targeted by this law. Therefore, a lot of our straight friends, family and colleagues realize the problems and march in support of these rights.

Otherwise, I feel there’s no concept of heterosexual community organising something like this because they have no oppression. But I still remember a terrible case in Jaipur where a friend of mine died very suddenly and because she was not married to her boyfriend, he had no right to even perform her rights at the funeral. So, yes, this way I feel they should also be talking about it as much as we are.

X. Lastly, is there a message of hope that you would like to give the community?

I feel I am in no position to give any message of Hope to my community, really because I feel it sounds like something that a very experienced activist who’s been there for many years and at this stature could give out a message of hope. Rather, I would just say that I hope everybody comes out today to march and without fear. The only message would be, even if you’re afraid, please come, wear a mask and march and make a statement and tell Delhi that you have become tolerant to envisage gay pride in your city and of course there is still a lot more thinking Delhi has to do.

(As told to Karan Deep Singh)